Sunday, March 13, 2011

Poll: should we support military action over Libya?

I've already set out my case against the no fly zone over Libya here and Richard and Claude have put the alternative case.

Opinions seem divided so I thought I'd set up a poll to guage opinion on this important issue. If you allow your eyes to drift to the right you'll see you have eight options and I've set the poll up so you can tick multiple boxes.

If you 'don't know' or want to explain your answer feel free to leave a comment.


Naadir said...

Yes, but a NFZ will be useless. Disappointing to see that point being misunderstood.

Jim Jepps said...

I feel this is the crucial point personally. A NFZ will not prevent genocide and pretending that it will does not make it so.

James Mackenzie said...

I think the title is misleading. Against Gadaffi's government is the question. I'm pro the Libyan people and don't want the outside world to sit by and watch them bombed.

max said...

There's a missing option, one that I would favour.
A no fly zone with the deployment of a peace force to stop the Gaddafi army advancing but without the mandate to attack first.

Jim Jepps said...

Ah - James you confused me for a bit. The title of the poll is 'should the west use military force to aid the libyan rebels?' - I've just realised the post title (here) talks about military action against Libya which is clearly inaccurate - I shall change it now.

George Bush III said...

Nuke the bastard!

DocRichard said...

"NFZ will be useless"
Easy to say from a place of safety. The people at the sharp end, facing air attack, and watching planes coming in from Syria and Algeria bringing mercenaries and arms to Gaddafi have a different and more authoritative view.

The NFZ will not stop Gaddafi in his tracks. It is a necessary contribution, but not sufficient.

I fully understand the doubts based on Iraq and Afghanistan. I can respect objections based on 100% pure pacifism, though this is not the Green Party position.

Remember that if Gaddafi wins, all dictators will use his methods. There is a global struggle, a choice: do we want to see a world order based on people power or on dictatorship?

One of the key measures is to block his TV channels, and rather than debating NFZ we should be committing ourselves to this campaign today. We could win it in a few days, and come back to the NFZ debate if Gaddafi is still there.

Anonymous said...

We are talking about a US imposed No fly zone here and not one by International Rescue or the Thunderbirds, or some other liberal fiction?

The same US that has 40k troops in Iraq after its 'withdrawal' and its 5th fleet in Saudi Occupied Bahrain?

We are talking about Western intervention in a country that lost perhaps 1/3 of its population under Italian colonial rule? Intervention that will have to blow up ground installations, targeting reluctant conscripts.

As news of military defections filter through do you really want to hand Gaddafi the nationalist ace card, potentially split the opposition and strengthen the ability of the West to manipulate the TNC?

How many planes does Libya actually have operational by the way? What are the facts? To what extent is a no fly zone the key issue when the decisive battles have been urban?

Once the NFZ is in place do we move on to the Ivory Coast? Or will the green liberal interventionists loose interest?

ModernityBlog said...

Let's not have any illusions about Qaddafi.

He is a dictator and has been in power for 42 years.

He deliberately underfunded the army in case they challenged him.

He kept special units ready, loyal only to him and his family.

He has employed mercenaries to wantonly murder Libyian civilians.

Qaddafi will do anything to stay in power.

His forces have the advantage of air superiority and that is a major factor now.

After Benghazi has been taken there will be mass murder by Qaddafi forces.

There will be blood in the streets, throughout the city of a million.

And in all of that, the West would have stood by, fully aware of what the consequences would be to the rebels losing.

So when you see bodies piled up in Benghazi, remember that is a consequence of Qaddafi's bloodlust and indecision in the West.

Raphael said...

What Mod says - precisely. Listen to what the rebels say. Read the article about the BBC journalists who have been tortured and had a glimpse of what is happening to those who fell in the dictators hands. Listen to the dictator himself talking about opponents as rats to be eradicated.
"I support the rebels but any Western intervention will do more harm than good" - that is nonsense. If you support the rebels the least you can do is listen to what they say. They are totally unambiguous and have been for several weeks.

DocRichard said...

We can argue forever about whether this is the world's first UN R2P action or more imperialism.

Or we can press our MPs to take positive non-violent action to end Ghaddafi's stranglehold on Libya by blocking his TV transmissions.