tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post3608916781349744405..comments2023-08-16T12:07:22.995+00:00Comments on The Daily (Maybe): French regional elections see center weakenJim Jeppshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-36958559333421352572010-03-16T15:58:46.713+00:002010-03-16T15:58:46.713+00:00Let's us not assume the demise of the FN yet, ...Let's us not assume the demise of the FN yet, as much as that would be marvellous.<br /><br />2 million voters for a neofascist party is not a good thing.ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-65528067186008632152010-03-16T15:03:00.078+00:002010-03-16T15:03:00.078+00:00You can carry on if you like! :)
I think for the ...You can carry on if you like! :)<br /><br />I think for the FN they had been generally seen as collapsing in the meantime so their result is seen as a *recovery* from a bad place. Its a good result for them because everyone expected them to do far worse.<br /><br />But my argument is that the PS did well in the number of seats it received - where we agree - but this is because its support has declined less fast than the right, not because it has had a surge of new voters.<br /><br />The party itself has had real problems over the last couple of years although this result may help put them back on track.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-1410605148054919302010-03-16T14:45:54.161+00:002010-03-16T14:45:54.161+00:00By the same token, the FN vote has collapsed from ...By the same token, the FN vote has collapsed from 3 564 064 in 2004 to 2 223 760 this time. Yet, this is seen as a very "good" result for the FN. What is important is % of voters - see pictures of PS leaders Sunday night and you will see without doubt that this is a victory for them. Although clearly the low turnout is a serious concern for everybody.<br /><br />Cheers - (with that, I stop arguing, promised).<br /><br />RaphaelRaphaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605252659871359565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-15747653032069456072010-03-16T14:02:34.805+00:002010-03-16T14:02:34.805+00:00Thanks for this.
The PS vote this time was 5,673,...Thanks for this.<br /><br />The PS vote this time was 5,673,918 in 2004 it was 8,938,695 in the first round.<br /><br />That's means more than one in three people who voted PS last time did not vote PS this time.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-76223677326272161872010-03-16T13:55:11.022+00:002010-03-16T13:55:11.022+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Raphaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605252659871359565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-80031577454117966452010-03-16T13:55:10.271+00:002010-03-16T13:55:10.271+00:00schocked - should have read shocked, sorry, that&#...schocked - should have read shocked, sorry, that's probably my German side... I hope you won't bear it against me :)Raphaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605252659871359565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-85566158629156211342010-03-16T13:52:16.490+00:002010-03-16T13:52:16.490+00:00Jim
As a French living in the UK, I have come to r...Jim<br />As a French living in the UK, I have come to realize that when it comes to secularism, the Channel is more like an ocean. Many things that you take for granted in the UK are shocking to most French. My kids go to a "normal" community non-denominational school, so when they first came back from School singing that God created the stars, I was schocked. Since then, I have learnt a lot - assemblies, nativity plays, visits to the local Church, etc, all things which are completely impossible to imagine in French secular schools, and frankly, all things which are slightly discriminatory for non-Christian children. These anecdotes are just to say that a certain amount of efforts are needed to understand the real nature of this debate in France. Secularism is not abstract in France. In 1994, over a million person demonstrated in Paris against a change in law which would have privileged private denominational school over public secular ones.<br /><br />The PS does not decline! This is an extremely good result for the PS which is in first position nationally. And while the Greens (and EE even more so) are, like in the UK, a broad Church, they are not really on the left of the PS (they probably span over it actually). They are certainly not (thanks God - and sorry for this transgression to my secularist principles) the equivalent of the FN on the left - that would be more the NPA.<br /><br />RaphaelRaphaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605252659871359565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-4467598674528617672010-03-16T09:44:03.778+00:002010-03-16T09:44:03.778+00:00Good question. It's because the regional elect...Good question. It's because the regional elections, a bit like locals here, are a bit more complex and confused than the general elections and I'd glossed over a few details to try to help reduce the confusion.<br /><br />Most of these parties stand as coalitions which are different in each region, so for example the NPA stood with others in Basse-Normandie, Champagne Ardenne, Bourgogne but not in other regions.<br /><br />The Greens stood with other smaller environmental parties and their partners varied per region and that 'list' was the EE.<br /><br />If you voted for the EE list inmost places your electing mainly green party people but also a few local, more independent figures.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-41722209702060183952010-03-16T09:10:46.206+00:002010-03-16T09:10:46.206+00:00Many thanks for a helpful post.
A little further ...Many thanks for a helpful post.<br /><br />A little further explanation gleaned from http://www.lemonde.fr/elections-regionales/:<br /><br />PS = Parti socialiste<br />UMP = Union pour un mouvement populaire<br />EE = Europe Ecologie<br />FN = Front national<br />FDG = Front de gauche<br />MoD = Mouvement démocrat<br />NPA = Nouveau parti anticapitaliste<br />LO = Lutte Ouvrière<br /><br />I do find French politics terribly confusing. Can anyone explain for me why the Greens "EE" rather than "Les Verts" as I thought they usually are?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07451651633652263663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-79834004468100369942010-03-15T22:59:42.314+00:002010-03-15T22:59:42.314+00:00I don't mean it's an uncomplicated situati...I don't mean it's an uncomplicated situation but I think it bears scrutiny. Although my spelling might not as I'm not sure if that is the right bear... anyway.<br /><br />The center right and center left are both in crisis. The centre right party's crisis is deeper and more sudden - which is why the PS has won out, but on an historically low turnout.<br /><br />The far right is moving up and whilst the far left parties have basically trod water this time the Greens (who have positioned themselves very much on the left, although we can discuss how 'real' this is) have had a phenomenal result. <br /><br />While center parties of the UMP and PS decline, the FN and Greens improve. If we want to call that something different from polarisation I'm happy - not wedded to the term - but I see that a reasonable way to describe the situation.<br /><br />I don't think we agree on the burka thing - but I'm not basing this on an abstract view of secularism but on the very real way it played out this time - as you say it was used in a disgusting way. On that I'm being specific about this election rather than a general principle.<br /><br />From what you say I suspect we're quite close on our view of how the national debate about 'secularism' and 'Islam' played out in this election, but possibly there's more room for debate on the wider issues (which i wasn't trying to tackle in this particular post)Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-89813329692834214682010-03-15T22:28:20.874+00:002010-03-15T22:28:20.874+00:00Jim
I am not sure why you say that French politic...Jim<br /><br />I am not sure why you say that French politics is becoming more polarized. The PS is centre-left. The factions of the far left have done well compared to UK, but poorly compared to other elections. The "Front de gauche" has done better than the NPA, and what differentiates it most from the NPA is precisely the fact that it is willing to support the party socialiste and make alliance with it.<br /><br />The right is historically low and that's great news and is a failure of Sarkozy strategy of imposing a single party on the right. But the political debate in France is not more polarized than usually.<br /><br />I also think that your description of the burka/Islam debate is way too simplistic; but that's probably for another thread. The real threat of radical Islamists to secular values which are essential in France, and to women's and others rights, is a legitimate debate. This debate has been used a political campaigning tactic in a disgusting way, and this has indeed backfired.Raphaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605252659871359565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-67140291772794881272010-03-15T17:19:53.324+00:002010-03-15T17:19:53.324+00:00I haven't done as much linking for this post a...I haven't done as much linking for this post as normal as I was in a bit of a rush - apologies.<br /><br />I rather liked the Le Monde interactive map thingy although there area few different french sites that break it down.<br /><br />http://www.lemonde.fr/elections-regionales/Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30598467.post-9593949554249632692010-03-15T14:28:23.231+00:002010-03-15T14:28:23.231+00:0012% that's a lot.
Jim, have you got any site...12% that's a lot.<br /><br />Jim, have you got any sites with a good breakdown on these figures?ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.com