Comments on The Daily (Maybe): Louise Whittle: Why have there been no great women...

Thanks Matt for the kind words.Firstly, Matt what ...

2007-11-10T20:20:00.000Z

Thanks Matt for the kind words.

Firstly, Matt what do you mean by vbg? Very Bad Girl? Very Bad Grin? or Village of Buffalo Grove? Sorry. Just not sure what you mean.

Secondly, the title is after the Nochlin original article as why hasn't there been a female Michaelangelo or De Vinci or later Van Gogh, Monet and so on. Visibility and acknowledgement is inter-linked with "great". Yes, art is subjective but also it is white male (patriarchy does play a role under capitalism) .

the point as well Matt, is that there are more visible women artists now than there was during the 19th century.

I only chucked in some as I woulda have ended up with a massively long piece (poor Jim!)but yes sure, Rachel Whiteread. And include more photographers and sculptors. And yes, as anon states, internet art. And community based artists as well.

But this was only a starting point and further exploration is needed.

Excellent article. My comments:>Why Have There Bee...

2007-11-10T14:48:00.000Z

Excellent article. My comments:

>Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?

I wonder whether "great" should be equated with "acknowledged by art history"?

For great female artists (women is a noun imho), I'd certainly be including Elizabeth Frink, and maybe (can't tell yet) Rachel Whiteread. As I see it, Rachel W is still basically exploring one idea - at her best in "Nameless Library". "Embankment" may a new development.

It could be argued that the Architect Zaha Hadid is a great artist. I don't agree, because her designs fail the "does it work well" test, which should imho be the first requirement of any building.

And I think that I would be including some photographers.

From my own locality, there are some superb artists working with the local "welldressing" community art tradition in Derbyshire, but they will never get much attention.

"patriarchal norms under capitalism"

... please ... vbg

Anon: the internet is a useful place for women to ...

2007-11-05T15:04:00.000Z

Anon: the internet is a useful place for women to put forward their work and it is more open and accessible than the usual channels.
Good ideas, Anon.

Throughout history women have been discouraged fro...

2007-11-05T11:03:00.000Z

Throughout history women have been discouraged from art, and had to put the needs of their families before themselves. Are women still discouraged? Yes. At least, definitely from mainstream gallery art.

I think there are definitely a large number of women who would describe themselves as artists online, but it could be that the type of art they choose to pursue is different to the mainstream fine art gallery context.

I'm personally interested in digital art, and always amazed by the sheer volume of amazing art by many, many women on online art communities like deviantart, sheezyart, elfwood and the rest. I do believe that the mainstream art world is still stifling to women, and therefore I find it interesting that many talented artists have benefited from the internet as a medium in which to share their ideas, and get commissions. This is parallel to the fact that many of them have embraced styles such as furry art, anime-inspired art or gone into a sci-fi or fantasy direction, which would not have been judged highly in a gallery context.

So I agree. I have learnt a lot from your dissection of art history and why women are missing. Today, I still think we have a lot to catch up on in the field of women becoming recognised artists.
However, I'm also really glad that the interenet has given many women a platform on which to meet other artists like themselves, trade and explore their own styles. The millions of Deviantart users selling their work on ebay may not be the next Picasso, but they are doing what they love, and that is Art.

Now if only we could get them to be mroe accepted by the establishment?

Thanks Madam Miaow for the kind words. Yeah, the D...

2007-11-04T20:43:00.000Z

Thanks Madam Miaow for the kind words.

Yeah, the Dreyfus Affair totally destroyed friendships esp. Zola and Cezanne who had been friends since childhood but they never spoke to each other again. Degas was friends with Pissarro and even in death Degas never attended Pissarro's funeral.

Pissarro was the only Impressionist who incorporated the Dreyfus Affair in his work. And he lived for a couple of years late 19th Century in a house not far from me.

It is also interesting what Greer says as it is kinda true that women have and still do take a back seat.

I also think you are right about women in the left are left on the margins, invisible and never really engaged with on equal terms.

There's also an interesting bk called the Pre-Raphaelite Sisterhood.

Fascinating stuff, Louise. Didn't know that the Dr...

2007-11-04T18:49:00.000Z

Fascinating stuff, Louise. Didn't know that the Dreyfus affair had split the artists like that.

Germaine Greer (when she woz good) showed how there were many promising artists who were the wives, girlfriends and mothers of male artists and who supppressed their own talents in order to support their men.

Closer to home, in the left, women creatives are pushed into nurturing, supportive trolley-dolly roles while the men are encouraged to perform and write. So nuthin's changed.