Comments on The Daily (Maybe): Is religion worth worrying about?

Jim,you expressly stated:"parts of the CoE for ins...

2008-10-28T23:49:00.000Z

Jim,

you expressly stated:

"parts of the CoE for instance are extremely secular."

now you are broadening the point to include other Christians, hmm.

I know of no organized group in the CoE which advocates complete disestablishment? if there is one, please let us know.

why would they favour losing power, influence and money? they do very nicely out of it, they wouldn't, seems unlikely that bits of the CoE would want to cut their own throats on this issue

I think you are missing my other point, the REACTION to the bus advert was POSITIVE, 20 times what was expected, thus, it is fair to ask WHY that was so?

my own view is that people are getting cheesed off with the religious intrusion into secular life.

either way, there has to be SOME reason?

I'd welcome other's thoughts on why they got 20 times the funding for the advert

what caused that type of reaction? what other explanations could there be?

"secular enough to argue for the complete disestab...

2008-10-28T21:59:00.000Z

"secular enough to argue for the complete disestablishment? I doubt it"

Yes. Most Christians are in churches unaffiliated to the state and I suspect if we polled of coe people a good number would be in favour of seperation of church and state.

"secular enough to forgo government funding for religious schools? I doubt it"

Well... yes. In the sense that many Christians do not want to send their children to explicitly religious schools and many religious schools are private.

I'm not quite sure what power and influence the archbishop of cantebury has these days but I don't think he's quite the malign force you seem to be making him out to be.

There was reaction against and support for the bus advert - but there weren't riots or anything. Let's get this in perspective.

should read:"not much different"

2008-10-28T21:54:00.000Z

should read:

"not much different"

secular enough to argue for the complete disestabl...

2008-10-28T21:53:00.000Z

secular enough to argue for the complete disestablishment? I doubt it

secular enough to forgo government funding for religious schools? I doubt it

the nice pleasant smiles of theists don't count for much when their POWER is threatened, that's the issue, power

it is not whether or not they have nice manners and say "let's live and let live"

it is what people do when they can exert power and influence, and in that most collectivized theists are not much from politicians or other elites, etc it is about getting power and holding on to it

which is why there was that reaction and support for the bus advert

You're quite right MB, you did. My mistake.I still...

2008-10-28T19:44:00.000Z

You're quite right MB, you did. My mistake.

I still think you're going a bit far though as there are very different strands - parts of the CoE for instance are extremely secular.

Jim, that's why I wrote:groups of theistssure enou...

2008-10-28T19:37:00.000Z

Jim,

that's why I wrote:

groups of theists

sure enough, you'll hear one or two individuals being pleasant, but the test of people is when they have power and can act as a group, what do they do? flex their muscle or act humane?

and that's where you won't find any realtolerance for non-God believing people, the problem is that a chunk of theists seem to think that belief in a deity somehow privileges their views over others and it is so so wrong.

which is why the funding for the Bus was so popular

Sure it cuts both ways - but I think you've been p...

2008-10-28T19:08:00.000Z

Sure it cuts both ways - but I think you've been pretty unlucky if you've never heard a religious person be respectful of others.

doesn't respect cut both ways?I doubt there would ...

2008-10-28T18:47:00.000Z

doesn't respect cut both ways?

I doubt there would be such a reaction if people didn't feel put upon by the excesses of religions which has been brewing up over the past few years

the day I hear groups of theists saying "ahh, I appreciate you are an atheist, I can respect that..." I will be happy, however, at the moment, it tends to be a one way street

Well I think you're right Modernity and Green Gord...

2008-10-28T14:07:00.000Z

Well I think you're right Modernity and Green Gordon (and James :)) it is important to see this in context - which is why I wanted to mention Sadie but not take her side as such.

One thing I haven't blogged about but has looked interesting is Phil Woolas' *other* controversial statement which was in favour of the disestablishment of the church of england... something that is well over due.

Yes, let's respect the personal beliefs of others and I'm not against that taking some institutional form - but for the State to be tied to one particualr form of Christianity denegrates the citizens, the state and, as it happens, the church.

there is an obvious elephant in the room here, and...

2008-10-28T13:25:00.000Z

there is an obvious elephant in the room here, and probably one of many reasons that people felt so compelled to donate:

too much damn religion being thrust into people's lives

I think most people aren't too concerned what religious beliefs others hold, that's not the issue, rather the creeping presence of religion, the pushing aside of what remains of British "secularism" that's why people responded as they did

I hope that people bear in mind the implications of this

There is a valid point that this is a sort of libe...

2008-10-28T11:53:00.000Z

There is a valid point that this is a sort of liberal smugness, but it's nothing on the smugness of the fundies that think that atheists haven't seen the light... I would be less inclined to agree with it if it wasn't a direct response to religious preachery in bus ads.

Jim, you're on fire - this and the subsequent piec...

2008-10-28T08:39:00.000Z

Jim, you're on fire - this and the subsequent piece on the American elections are just tip-top blogging. I nominate you for another imaginary award (I'll get round to making a specific one up if you like).